Women's Money Wisdom
Women face a unique set of challenges - from caring for aging parents to raising children - all while trying to maintain a career and a semblance of work-life balance. It can be overwhelming, and it's all too easy to put your own needs and finances on the back burner. We believe that every woman deserves to feel financially empowered and secure. Our podcast is designed specifically for women like you - women who are ready to take charge of their finances and their future. Host and financial planner at Pearl Planning, Melissa Joy, CFP ®, will roll out a new episode each week to help you improve financial literacy and gain the confidence you need to navigate your financial life. Pearl Planning is a financial planning and wealth management practice located at 8031 Main Street in Dexter, Michigan. You can reach our office at (734)274-6744. Investment advisory services offered by Pearl Planning, a DBA of Stephens Consulting LLC., an SEC registered investment advisor. Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product (including the investments and/or investment strategies recommended or undertaken by Pearl Planning, or any non-investment related content, made reference to directly or indirectly in this Podcast will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Due to various factors, including changing market conditions and/or applicable laws, the content may no longer be reflective of current opinions or positions. Moreover, you should not assume that any discussion or information contained in this podcast serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Pearl Planning. To the extent that a listener has any questions regarding the applicability of any specific issue discussed above to his/her individual situation, he/she is encouraged to consult with the professional advisor of his/her choosing. Pearl Planning is neither a law firm, nor a certified public accounting firm, and no portion of the Podcast content should be construed as legal or accounting advice. A copy of Pearl Planning’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at www.pearlplan.com. Content represents the opinion of the speaker and not necessarily that of Pearl Planning.
Women's Money Wisdom
Episode 245: Coping as a Caregiver with Danielle Miura, CFP®, MSFP, EA
How can we manage the heavy responsibilities of family caregiving without sacrificing our own financial and emotional health?
In this heartfelt episode, Melissa Joy, CFP®, CDFA® sits down with Danielle Miura, CFP®, MSFP, EA, with first-hand experience navigating the complexities of caregiving after her grandmother’s fall. Together, they delve into the emotional and financial challenges faced by caregivers and share practical strategies for managing medical care, logistics, and the personal sacrifices that often come with this role.
Danielle shares powerful insights from her journey and offers tools to support caregivers in prioritizing their own well-being. Whether you’re caring for a family member with dementia or an adult child with special needs, this episode provides a wealth of resources to help you balance these responsibilities while maintaining your health and happiness.
Key Takeaways:
- Prioritizing Self-Care: Discover the importance of setting aside time for yourself and implementing self-care practices, like journaling and meditation, to stay grounded amidst caregiving duties.
- Understanding Different Caregiving Roles: From supporting elderly family members to helping children with special needs, Melissa and Danielle explore the unique challenges each role presents.
- Setting Boundaries & Future Planning: Learn about the crucial role of caregiver agreements, boundary-setting, and long-term care insurance for both peace of mind and practical financial planning.
- Communication & Role Clarity: Danielle emphasizes the need for open, clear communication among family members to reduce stress and ensure smooth coordination of care.
Resources:
Follow Danielle on LinkedIN
Learn more about Danielle Interviews
The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https://stephenPearl Planning.com/
Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show.
Speaker 1:Did you know that November is National Caregiver Month? For those of you and I know there are many who have been a caregiver for family or friends in the past, this probably hits close to home, and for the rest of us, you know that we're only a phone call away from being a caregiver. Today, I have an important guest who's here to shed light on caregiving and the financial considerations both for those receiving care as well as for the family members responsible for coordinating care. Danielle Mula had her life transformed when, at the age of 25, her grandmother fell on a tile floor. She had no formal caregiving training, but she used her financial planning background to help solve complex family financial questions, make decisions and learn about financial management and estate and legal coordination management and estate and legal coordination. Danielle's mission today is to help family caregivers on their journey and to inspire them to take care of their own financial well-being while providing the best care for their families. What more could we ask in terms of a conversation during National Caregiver Month Danielle? Thank you and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for having me. Family caregiving is often a taboo, hidden topic that many people don't discuss, so I really appreciate you having me on here to talk about family caregiving.
Speaker 1:It is a taboo topic. It's really difficult to bring it up amongst family members if you're not in that moment where a crisis has presented itself, and I think for a lot of our women listeners it's probably in that stress thought bubble of what could go wrong. So I just hope that we're reaching the ears of people during their drive time to create space for the courage to have this conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I got married young. I was 20 and things were going pretty well for my husband and I, until four years later I was surprised by a wonderful baby. I was pregnant and it seemed like our life shifted from being partners in a marriage to now raising a child which, as only children, we had no formal experience really raising a child. So we're doing everything like um, very like um, trial and error based Um cause we really had I at the most I did was like babysitting and changing a diaper, and that was like pretty much it. So we pretty much learned everything from scratch.
Speaker 2:We knew at some time that family caregiving would pose to be something that we may have in our future. As both only children, we suspected that our parents would need help in the future. But did I know that I would somehow need to care for my grandmother at 24, at 25? That wasn't something that posed a question in my brain, so it was kind of like a shock to me. We were at that time. We were finally feeling financially stable. We were saving half of our income.
Speaker 1:We were really like uncomfortably saving.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like a um, it wasn't like a burden to say that much, but it was just like we felt comfortable doing so. It was our financial plan, our family planning guide and uh, then it's like caregiving hit, and it was like there was just a lot of obstacles. And I feel like, as women, we experience, whether we want to or not, we experience a lot of obstacles within our financial planning that often don't get talked about.
Speaker 1:So true, and you know what does caregiving mean. Some of it could be the actual delivery of medical or personal care, but then it's also the work of the business of care as well, in terms of managing and navigating. You know paperwork and and schedules and things like that, for, to the extent that you're comfortable sharing, what did it look like for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I consider myself part of a care team. My mom and I mostly cared for my grandmother. My mom was the power of attorney for her at the time. My duties were to take her to doctor's appointments, pick up medications. We delivered food, homemade meals to her, and sometimes just caregiving means just sitting down with your loved one or your care recipient and just being there emotionally. I think we often forget the emotional impact we can make on our aging loved ones.
Speaker 1:So incredible when you have that capability and also are willing to share it, and I would imagine it would also come with a cost in terms of your time, your financial, you know your human capital, your ability to earn, your financial well-being and your emotional, physical well-being. What do you find with caregivers? That you know what areas get touched?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for me just sharing my personal perspective unfortunately, due to the care needs that my grandmother needed, I wasn't able to holding a full-time job was very difficult, and so some could say that I was a forced entrepreneur and that I needed flexibility in order to take care of her. Due to limited time capacity, there was only so many clients that I could take on. Therefore, um, I didn't have as much income as I would have liked, um, and that that it seems like dipping into this, into our savings, was kind of that 50% that we saved the savings, the savings that we we had, we dipped into, and I don't regret that experience. I'm really grateful for the time that I had with my grandmother, but, for a lot of people, there's a lot of financial impact involved in family caregiving.
Speaker 1:What was the length of time that the caregiving continued for you and your mom, with your?
Speaker 2:grandmother. Yeah, so it was three years total, um, and it's interesting that three years was kind of. My limit of this is as much as I can do. And that was it, and uh, she read that pretty close to the line of three years. So in a way it was good timing, but death is never good timing, unfortunately. So true, but if I were to say general statistics, a third of caregivers dip into their savings. Many caregivers feel like they missed promote promotions.
Speaker 2:Taking time out of work, whether that's to care give that's moving, shifting from part full-time to part-time work, early retirement is common, so there's a lot of financial impact involved in family caregiving. I'm actually doing a social media campaign for the month of November where friends of mine, as well as colleagues, have shared in video submissions, shared their experiences about the financial impact of caregiving, because it's often for many people to just hide behind doors and have those conversations within themselves and bottle up that financial stress within themselves, and because of that, I was hoping that, by spreading awareness and sharing these videos about the financial impact of caregiving, that many family caregivers would reach out to resources to help them.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're going to get into some of those resources as this episode unfolds. But where can people find your wonderful I love this your National Caregiver Month campaign.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it will be on three different social media sites LinkedIn, twitter and Instagram. Lovely, I believe I shared my social media pages, so perfect. We'll have a link to resources.
Speaker 1:Yes, we'll be happy to link that, and I think one of the really important considerations and factors is no one has a magic wand and sometimes people, when they consider reaching out to professionals, think well, I need to wait till I figure out this situation and then have my money act together. If using a financial planner as an example, when sometimes there's opportunities missed if you don't access and seek resources sooner, not later, what are some of the lessons you've learned and what are some of your go-to resources for people? Listening and nodding saying this is me right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, unfortunately there's not a lot of financial education related resources for family caregivers. You would think that approximately 40% of the American population that there would be more resources, but unfortunately there's really not much. But unfortunately there's really not much. I recently did kind of an estimate of how many blogs and articles are out there related to family caregiving and money and it's like less than 190 articles and 65 of them are mine.
Speaker 1:Well, we're glad to add to the very limited volume of content that's around this. But I'm so glad that you're doing this because what we hear is it's repeated back as a statistic, especially for women that one of the reasons that you are at risk later, in later years, is because many women take time out of their career for caregiving as well as child rearing, and thus because women are also more likely to live longer, they kind of have a double whammy where they've saved less, their social security earnings record is less strong on average than men's, and they're going to be living longer, so they need resources that will last longer, and so what better way to combat that than to go, as you're doing, right to the source of those years where you're making those caregiving decisions?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard because I feel like as women, usually we're more emotionally inclined than males to make emotional decisions and we really care really strongly for people and really we really want the best for people. But sometimes that can be a two-edged sword when it comes to family caregiving.
Speaker 1:Beyond the financial resources, are there other resources? Is there a broader you know, broader volumes of information about the emotional and social toll on caregiving and better resources on the mental health side of things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's actually a plethora of really great resources about self-care and how to prioritize yourself. I can give you a blog of a bunch of different resources and people can view those and select what interests them or pertains to their situation. The complexity about family caregiving is that there's so many different types of caregiving situations. It's not just for the aging loved one anymore, it's long distance caregivers, it's dementia caregivers, it's special needs caregivers caring for an aging adult child, not an aging but, an adult child.
Speaker 2:So we're just kind of expanding the definition of what family caregiving looks like.
Speaker 1:So true, and it can impact because over time, people have, you know, especially with the digital communication, we can be in a different part of the country trying to, you know, worrying about and caring for family. Sometimes people make decisions about relocation, they make decisions about major changes to their life based on their family's needs, and sometimes they also don't. And so you know, there is it is such a complex and fraught with emotion and pain, and also there isn't a textbook that can say this is how you're going to do it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every situation is different. I'd love to say that I have a handbook that answers every single question that you're going to have. I was thinking today about like my daughter asking me about death and that conversation. I didn't have anything in my toolbox that said this is how you're supposed to talk about death, this is how you're supposed to be grieving, on top of having a conversation with your young one about death death of a loved one that you cared for so much.
Speaker 1:It's so true, and in those moments there's a limited capacity for time to really say oh, this is something I'd like to put in the parking lot and tackle. You've just got to kind of have that discussion in the car and hope you did as best you could, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the best you can, sometimes just being average, being doing the best you can is the best you can.
Speaker 1:For people who struggle with seeking more resources. Are there certain kind of lessons that you learned that you think are tips that you have for caregivers that you think it's important for us to discuss and share today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so from the, from the self-care side, or the financial side, or maybe a mix of both. Let's start.
Speaker 1:Let's start yeah, let's start on self-care, because I think in any financial discussion, your wellbeing is is a great place to start it. It lays a framework for everything else going well. And then let's talk financial.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So for the self-care side, I would talk about creating a self-care routine. Many people think that self-care is just a thing you were born with and you just automatically have this routine that you just develop over time. I really think that self-care and placing boundaries is a learned skill. People develop it's not something that's genetically there for you.
Speaker 1:Can you relate what some self-care routines are that you either recommend to people or might have been beneficial for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think everybody's self-care journey is a little bit different, so I don't want to impose that like you should be doing X, y and Z I didn't really learn as much about. I'm a workaholic. And then, on top of being, a family caregiver. It was just like a double whammy on both sides. And then having a younger child and balancing that all was just a really hard combination for me.
Speaker 2:And so I got to the point where I was just so burnt out I had no other choice but to seek help, and in that I got a therapist and we started working on some of these self-care routines that I should have developed before I started caregiving.
Speaker 2:But it took me to burnout, to realize that I really need to prioritize and focus on myself, and so through that I told the therapist like I don't want someone to like mope and dope me. I don't want someone that's like just going to tell me like poor you, like this is a hard life for you. I want someone to give me tools in my toolbox so I can be successful. So we started experimenting with a bunch of different self-care routines. Some of the things that I did was I had a journal, specifically a Greek journal at that time that I would just sit in my car and so I would arrive to my daughter's school like five minutes or 10 minutes early and just sit in the parking lot, which usually the parking lot was full, so you don't want to get there like a minute before or you're not going to have a parking space anyway. So it worked in my favor.
Speaker 2:Anyhow, I would just take out that book and I would just write down my thoughts for that day and that was my, even though it was very small thing. That was my five or 10 minutes just for me to sit on my grief at that time.
Speaker 1:I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, so some of the small things can build up to being really great things. Um, I would sit on the grass with my daughter and just look at the sky, and if she just ran around the park, it was a very secluded area, so it's like I watched her and then it was time to relax and time for me for her to play with other kids, so she was getting her self care in, but it was also time for me to just relax and take a breather and meditate. I used to do a lot of grounding. So, using your five senses, you think about what is you're experiencing right now. So right now, I'm hearing you, melissa, I'm smelling the wood that's in my room, I'm touching my desk, and so, using your five senses, you can think. It's like a meditation tool to really get you your center of focus.
Speaker 2:So, as I said, everybody's different in how they do self-care. I just find that, especially for family caregivers, some of the simplest things are the best things. I used library, utilized libraries. They have great events sometimes, and so I would just take my daughter to the events. She would like put crafts together or they would have a read aloud book. And that was my time to process and be me, Maximizing what you have available to you, what's in your community. Where can you get little hints of your feeling of yourself back, whether that's blaring music in the car because you're finally driving alone, or you know you want to get back to where you are, who you are, because often that is separated in so many different roles.
Speaker 1:I love that description of keeping a connection with your identity and who you are in a state of you know contentment, which is can be so difficult when things out of your control are. You know, in your life. Talk to me a little bit about some suggestions you have on the financial side of things and you know you're a financial planner, so this is what you do day to day, often working with caregivers which is so extraordinary.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, the question I hear most especially from sandwich generation caregivers, so those for me, like me, that are caring for an aging adult and caring for a child a lot of the complexity of planning that we get into is understanding how to balance savings between the three different generations. Many people are paying for costs for their loved ones, because long-term care is super expensive and so you may be paying for long-term care for your loved one and then balancing yourself.
Speaker 2:How do you protect yourself and care for yourself during that time? Because your finances may be very limited and then, as a child, you may be smashed because financially, because you're paying for child care or you're paying for their extracurricular activities after school.
Speaker 2:Things really add up when you have a child. I was so lucky that she was the first half year we didn't put her into daycare and so she was home for most of that time. And then, once in California they have transitional kindergarten, so she went to school starting at four, and so that was a great, you know, transition for me. I actually wrote a letter to the teacher saying thank you so much for having this available, because I couldn't do caregiving without you, for having this available, because I couldn't do caregiving without you. I was so burnt out. I was so grateful to have the school available. Going in and out of the hospitals because my grandmother had health issues was not possible with having a child at home.
Speaker 1:Well, and for that sandwich generation, when we just talked about you need to in some cases. When we just talked about you need to, in some cases, reduce work, take breaks from work, and so you know. But then, when you're not working, it's not like you have the ability to have undivided attention for kids, so you have less earnings to pay for the child care that you still need, because, even though your time is reduced in the workplace, it's going toward assistance in often circumstances that are not child-friendly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the hard part in finding those balance between things. But also, if there's no balance, there's no possibility of balance able to occur, which sometimes there is. If you're paying for child care and then you're paying for long-term care, your self-care budget may not exist and unfortunately that's sometimes the reality of certain circumstances. I can't tell a client oh, you shouldn't be paying for child care or you shouldn't be paying for your long-term care. That would be extremely judgmental of me and not right of me to tell them this is wrong for you, for caring for the people that you love. But instead I can do things and suggest things, like a solution fund. So a solution fund is something people can contribute into a fund to.
Speaker 2:Whenever you need a solution, like you need self-care or you unfortunately don't have enough money to come up with child care or long-term care that month, you can use funds within that account and have people contribute to it. There may be people in your life that are like I just want to support you, I want to help you, but in those times, most of the time, you don't have a list of to-dos of people that can help you. But in those times, most of the time, you don't have a list of like to do's of people. Can that can help you? I really suggest a written like list or a phone list on your phone in your notes of ways people can help you, because people will ask and you'll be like I have no clue.
Speaker 1:So is that something you help for your caregiving clients? You help to develop the solution fund and and also, hey, this would be reasonable to you know, like, let's use an example where there's a family member that's local who's kind of volunteered to be the boots on the ground, but then there are family members that are further away or aren't having to diminish their own work because of the work that that caregiver is doing. So have you counseled people on what would be reasonable in ways to kind of broach that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and how to start those conversations?
Speaker 2:I think the conversation part is the hardest thing Um like for me, for example, um, even though I know my grandmother owed me money for for gas for taking her to doctor's appointments, and I'm a financial planner, so I should have these conversations just like perfectly mapped out. I felt uncomfortable asking for gas money. I felt uncomfortable asking for maintenance money for my car because I one, I was unsure of what she would say, even though I knew she had the money, and two, it was just very uncomfortable. Sometimes you'd just rather pay it out of your pocket so that you don't have to have those uncomfortable conversations, and that's why I think creating the solution fund, which is one idea, can really pose less uncomfortable conversations. You could say will you get me a gift card to go out to dinner? Or I would like to get a massage or get my nails done for this month. Can you get me a gift card for that? So it doesn't feel like it's as much of a monetary solution, but it's something someone can give to support a family caregiver.
Speaker 1:I love that, and you've introduced me to the concept of a solution fund. I'm sure I will be using it in the near future in conversations with clients. Any other financial considerations and also, you know, just things you'd wish you had had the opportunity to discuss before you were in the caregiving circumstance that you encourage people to consider and and have those difficult conversations earlier oh.
Speaker 2:So, as I say, get your finances in order, get your loved ones finances in order. Usually that's the quickest, easiest answer. Um, many people don't know what their finances are. They've never had a road map of what their finances are, so they don't even know what they're getting themselves into financially when they start family care. And that's really sad, because if you know at least what your financial circumstances are, you can map out what your limitations are. So for me, I knew three years was my max and that's all I could do. That was my financial boundary that I put in place. And many people are like I'll just do this for 10 years because there's no limit. And that can happen where you're a dementia caregiver and the length of caregiving is 10 years. But imagine 10 years without being in the workforce.
Speaker 2:Imagine 10 years of focusing so much on so much on one person, which is amazing. I really am grateful for your work and admire it, but when you've given so much time to one person, it's so hard to focus on yourself and what your needs are. It's like you're almost like waiting till you're in your fifties or sometimes sixties to grapple these topics and at that time, if you're trying to get back into the workforce at those ages, you're dealing with ageism at that point. Unfortunately, ageism does exist. That's why I mentioned it. So you may have a really hard time getting back into the workforce. You may have to choose jobs that you are well qualified for but are not paying at the rate that should make you you were used to yeah, oh, that's a lot to think about.
Speaker 1:Um, when you've had circumstances where you were advising people where they didn't know where the boundary was, themselves are there, have you been able to intentionally advise them to have a boundary that served them but also, you know, was as much as was possible considering the needs of the person receiving care?
Speaker 2:I think it's more of giving yourself grace and knowing that I have a year to give or I'm willing to go part-time for the time being. To go part-time for the time being, work to me like maybe say hypothetically um, work to this person is their self-care, they love working. It would make some whole the social aspect of work, because there's a lot of positive things about being in the workplace. Unfortunately there's a lot of negatives as well.
Speaker 1:But for some people.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of there's a lot of positive things with being in the workplace, and when you're quitting your job to be a family caregiver, you're diminishing those positive things or you're finding things to replace those positive things, which is often hard because you feel so isolated at that time. So if you can make limitations for yourself and say I'm willing to do family caregiving but I'm only able to do it at this certain capacity, whether that's doing part-time caregiving or I'm only able to take my loved one to doctor's appointments three times a week instead of five and someone else is going to do the other aspects of that of five and someone else is going to do the other aspects of that. Or I'm going to have my loved one go to adult daycare during the day and then after that I'll take care of them during the nighttime shift and hoping that they sleep through the night, so I'm not woken up several times during the night.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking of a conversation that I had recently with a client and it had to do with the needs of a family member that was very long distance.
Speaker 1:And there was another family member that was kind of just kind of autocratically saying like calling the shots of like here's, who will be going to call on and, you know, go to manage the situation which involved a lot of travel. And so I think the advisor in that circumstance you know the decision had already been made in this round, but it was like, hey, we need to have a discussion about what is kosher in terms of like you don't have to be, you can't. It's, it's not an appropriate boundary to be told at the drop of a hat you need to get on a flight, unless that's what you want. But you know, like having it have come up repeated times um resulted in the need to have a discussion about what the boundaries are and you get to, you get to determine um your contribution to it, and we should seek um an opportunity to insert something that would be, you know, kind of a backstop in the moments that you can't be the one to do that yeah, and that's why I love caregiver agreements.
Speaker 2:Slash contracts is just like any job description, you're describing exactly what your caregiver duties. You're setting the limitations for yourself. I'm willing to take my loved one to the doctor's appointments. I'm willing to fly halfway across the country two times a year. That's my expectation of what my job entails. And for that job, this is what I will receive.
Speaker 2:Whether that's an inheritance or whether that's an hourly or salary pay. This will help compensate me for my trip. It will help compensate me for the time that I'm taking to care for you. Now not everybody is able to utilize that due to limited finances of their care recipient, but of course I love that there's limitations and drawing that line of what you're expected to do.
Speaker 1:I feel like we could talk all day about this, but, given the limitations of time, I'm curious, based on your experiences, what your thoughts are and how you advise people who are younger, who are not the ones receiving care about, how to think about long-term care and long-term care insurance. Based on your experiences, just tell us you know where you sit, based on what you've learned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm grateful to have seen two sides of the coin. Yeah, so I'm grateful to have seen two sides of the coin. My grandmother had long-term care insurance which she bought, I think, in the nineties. Like it's really like a really old insurance policy. I had a job.
Speaker 1:In the nineties, when I was in college of, I was an administrator at a long-term care like a regional long-term care insurance office, so I was seeing people like your grandmother back in the day. The insurance was very different than it is today in terms of what you could get and receive, but I'm glad to hear she was able to use that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so I was grateful that her policy was actually decently manageable, but it didn't cover her whole care. It only covered 75% of her in-home care, so she was still taking out. She still had to take out about $6,000 from of long-term care expenses a month, which for some people From elsewhere Someone's, yeah, someone's salaries- is $6,000 a month.
Speaker 1:Or more than after tax. Yeah, so she had long-term care insurance. And what's the other side of the coin?
Speaker 2:The other side of the coin is her sister didn't have long-term care insurance, but she decided to pay everything forthright. How did that work? Interesting? I don't have any research data or anything to prove these concepts I have. This is just my own perspective. Yeah, anecdotal, but I found that the sister who didn't have long-term care insurance put more effort in getting herself healthy. Interesting, and I don't know if that's due to obviously there's a lot of limitations and other perspectives on this that could be to her will to live more, maybe more will to live or maybe more stubbornness, but they're both stubborn. But I'm wondering if it had to do with. I know that I'm going to have to fork out $15,000 next month. I'm going to make sure that I'm feeling better so that I don't have to pay this next month.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so interesting. I mean to me, long-term care is so new. Insurance is so nuanced, it's ever evolving and it is very expensive. So if you haven't looked at those types of policies, they're not cheap at all. They've kind of evolved so that there's other types of like kind of hybrid life insurance in some cases. But it is not something where it's just like you know, like life insurance or disability insurance, where it's like you need this check, go get it, you know if you can qualify it's. It's a very like nuanced area, just like you're describing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like the comfortability and the security of having something in place like an insurance policy. You're not like we are right now trying to pull out money from a bunch of different accounts to pay for long-term care because it's super expensive. So I like something in place, but, as you said, the insurance policies weren't like they were in the 90s.
Speaker 2:No insurance policies weren't like they were in the 90s. No, they're super complex and can be very expensive. So, really, determining plan for long term care as early as possible, determine your wishes because they'll evolve over time and usually they'll evolve over time based off of your own caregiving experiences. So, like for me, I know that I like more of a communal setting where my husband is like just put me wherever you want. At that point I won't really care.
Speaker 2:So just find the cheapest location, one that's close to you, and go through less hassle as possible. So that may maybe 10 years down the road, maybe my husband will change that perspective and he'll want to be with me in the same community that I'm in. So, everybody, re-evaluating your goals and your perspectives each year really make a difference. And then planning as early as possible I'm not expecting a 20-year-old to plan. Have a financial plan in place for long-term care, but I will expect that they have some type of perspective on long-term care.
Speaker 2:Some type of wishes in place so that if it does happen to them that they at least have wishes and then hopes that they're planning for the impact on disability.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. It's so important to you know. These are examples of things that nobody likes to talk about. The same goes with we could have another 45-minute conversation just about estate planning considerations and making sure that you have the right documents and name the right people, and they know that their name, you know if you are incapacitated, you know for death or disability, and so there's so much to consider and I very much feel like it's a personal decision.
Speaker 1:When it comes to long-term care insurance, I do think there's a mismatch, because many people I talk to in their 60s are very concerned about it, but it's also often more difficult to become insured then. I got my own insurance early 40s and that's just not a time where people want to write, you know, like big checks to policies about how you know big checks to policies about how you know you're going to receive skilled care in your hopefully 80s or 90s, and so I think listening to conversations like this are extremely valuable, and having frank discussions, like you're describing with your spouse, right Like about what matters to you. And you know, unfortunately, you guys have visited those conversations, probably because of your own experiences, but that's often the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that it's made it easier to have those conversations because I'll be like like I'll be in the car with my parents and we've just visited our care recipient and I'll be like well, if you had to make this decision, what, what, what would we?
Speaker 2:what would you want me to make? What decision would you want me to make in this circumstance? Would you want me to put you in hospice? Would you want me to put you in a nursing home rather than assisted living community? So it kind of opens. Unfortunately, this experience, even though it's a hard experience, can open up the conversation to other people, for having these conversations.
Speaker 1:Well, I hope that everyone listening follows, danielle. We will include links to your social media and resources. Danielle, is there anything you want to leave us with?
Speaker 2:as we're kind of concluding, yeah, I think the major thing is you're not alone as a family caregiver. Many people are hidden behind the shadows in being a family caregiver and it's so important, even though you may be isolated and alone, that you seek the help that you need and you deserve, because no one has to do it alone.
Speaker 1:I think that's a beautiful message. I hope that someone listening today needs to hear that message. And Danielle, as you can hear in these conversations, is a financial planner who's devoted to this area. I, you know, we really met, you know across LinkedIn and Twitter, and you your authenticity and sincerity on this topic, really you can. You can hear it in the things that you share, and so for anyone who feels like they're sitting in this boat and they need those boundaries, they need the solution account, I would encourage you to reach out to Danielle. Danielle, thank you for coming. Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to pearlplancom and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned.
