Women's Money Wisdom

Episode 247: The Soul of Wealth with Author Dr. Daniel Crosby

• Melissa Joy, CFP® • Season 4 • Episode 247

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What if wealth isn’t just about numbers?
In this transformative episode, Melissa Joy, CFP® is joined by Dr. Daniel Crosby to discuss his latest book, The Soul of Wealth. With 50 thought-provoking essays, Dr. Crosby redefines wealth as more than financial figures—highlighting its connection to personal values, mental wellness, and meaningful living. Together, they navigate the powerful intersection of wealth and well-being, offering insights that will inspire you to approach financial planning in a way that aligns with your core values.

Key Takeaways:

  • Redefining Wealth: Learn how The Soul of Wealth shifts the narrative from dollars and cents to a deeply personal and fulfilling approach to financial success.
  • The Impact of Comparison: Discover how the life of Vincent Van Gogh offers a cautionary tale about the effects of comparison on financial and mental well-being.
  • Choosing the Right Reference Class: Dr. Crosby and Melissa share strategies for focusing on personal growth by reframing your reference points and eliminating unhealthy comparisons.
  • Women in Finance: Explore the unique strengths women bring to investing, and how challenging outdated stereotypes can empower financial decision-making.
  • The Role of Gratitude and Giving: Be inspired by stories from The Soul of Wealth that emphasize the power of gratitude and generosity in fostering a healthier relationship with money.

Resources:

Buy Daniel's Book Here
Follow Daniel on LinkedIn
Learn More about Daniel 

The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https://pearlplan.com/

Melissa Joy :

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show.

Melissa Joy :

We're near the end of the year and I am compiling a list of the best books to read if you want to kind of bone up on financial planning. We'll have that on our blog coming up soon, and today I have another fantastic author who I'm putting at the top of the list, dr Daniel Crosby, who recently published the Soul of Wealth. Let me just show you the book my bookmark, earmarked and signed copy who is talking all about the meaning of money, the meaning of money as it is integrated into your life and just how it impacts you personally. It's an exceptional book, one we'll talk about in this episode and, daniel, thank you for joining me.

Melissa Joy :

First of all, let me give a brief introduction. I got so excited to get started that I need to give a little bit of an intro. Dr Daniel Crosby is a psychologist and behavioral finance expert and he helps organizations understand the intersection of mind and markets. And four, but this book is the Soul of Wealth. It was published in October 2024. When not telling us how we should be thinking about the markets and how the markets impact us and our psychology? Daniel's a father of three, a huge follower of the St Louis Cardinals, an explorer of the American South and an amateur hot sauce chef, which we may not get into today, but my husband would love to hear about.

Daniel Crosby:

So anyway, daniel welcome. Yeah, Melissa, great to be with you.

Melissa Joy :

I loved your book. I read it in actually an audible audio book trip to Chicago and back from here in Michigan, and then, when I was preparing for the episode, I of course revisited and it's great taken all together, but it's also like 50 short essays that are each something to chew on. So as I was, like you know, kind of thinking back and preparing for the episode, I was like this would be great for me to read once a week, one chapter at a time. How did you come up with the you know kind of impetus or idea for what we needed to think about when reading this book?

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah, it's so gratifying to hear that. You know people like you, who I respect, have enjoyed the format so much, because that was very intentional, like I haven't. I don't know that a lot of people know this, I'm trying not to say it too loud, but you know I wrote about 80 pages of the soul of wealth, uh, the the first time, and my previous books had been in a very traditional, you know, 250 pages, 10, 10 or 12, 10 or 12 chapters of 20 to 25 pages a piece around sort of a central theme. And I started to write the Soul of Wealth in a similar format and I had done about four chapters, about 80 pages, and it just wasn't good. I mean, I wanted, you know, I wanted this thing to sort of be my magnum opus. This was, you know, the most heart-led, the most personal book I've ever written, certainly, and I wanted it to be this really special thing and it just was kind of left me flat and so I set that aside and I started reading Rick Rubin's book.

Daniel Crosby:

So Rick Rubin, the producer for Jay-Z and Johnny Cash and the Beastie Boys and all these other folks, and his book was almost like this devotional around creativity. It was just these, I think 70 something sort of meditations around creativity. And I loved the format because I try and read every day. But you know, I have a big job, I have three kids, I have a wife, you know it's like life gets very hectic. And I love the format of Rick Rubin's book because I could read a chapter or two and I actually found like I would read more because it was so bite sized and you felt like you were accomplishing something. So I'm thrilled that people really seem to be enjoying the format and some people are treating it as this sort of weekly reflection.

Melissa Joy :

Well, I'm ready to do that. That's what I'm going to tell people listening here to do, and I feel like there's really great because we can think and talk a lot people like us about the concepts of wealth. But I really feel a lot of the chapters have kind of action items or hey, this is kind of a summary of you know how you should think about things and how to reframe. So I love that too, that it's really relatable.

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah, thank you. Thank you, it's. It's the Alabama public schools in me. I try to make things simple and understandable.

Melissa Joy :

Well, keeping it simple is an extraordinary gift when it comes to this complex world of money and wealth. An extraordinary gift when it comes to this complex world of money and wealth, but it gets even more complicated when we really get, as practitioners, to the heart of the matter, which is working with your money isn't really about your money, it's about you. And I wanted to kind of kick off the conversation about the book by tackling this concept of wealth, which I know we could be talking for three hours or just, you know, reading all of your books and then compiling there. But what do you think the average American thinks wealth means? And, as you've, you know, made it your life's work to explore this concept. How would you ask them to think differently?

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah. So I think at the, at the highest level, the average person, the average American, certainly thinks of wealth in financial terms, in dollar terms. They think of it as a number. It's the case that people like you and I who work in this space, we run across a lot of people who, just from sort of a bell curve perspective, are in the 99th percentile for wealth, you know, for having money, and yet their lives feel quite impoverished.

Daniel Crosby:

And that was a big part of what led me to write the book is that I was constantly rubbing shoulders with these people who you know, quote unquote, had it all but but really didn't and sort of had still, even at very, very high levels of wealth, of sort of in the most basic sense, money was still a master and not a servant. So that to me was like how do you make money? The servant and not the master? And in the process of that, you know, I discovered all these fascinating things. One I dug in I know you liked this part I dug into the positive psychology literature and there's this idea of PERMA, you know Martin Seligman's idea of sort of the five facets of human flourishing. And when you look at the way that we prepare for retirement. Traditionally, you know, or think about wealth traditionally, we really only hit one of them and in fact kind of ignore three or four. So there's, you know, there's, there's all these different pillars of wealth, and the traditional wealth management ecosystem has only touched on a very, very shallow definition of that.

Melissa Joy :

Well, tell me about per month, because I we're we're nearing the end of the year and I actually, when I when I got to that part of the book which is very early, and I actually when I got to that part of the book which is very early, it sparked to me something. If you're going to set intentions for the new year, it would be great to be thinking within the concept of PERMA. So you know, ears out if you are thinking about whatever your concept of New Year's resolutions or goals for the future. So what?

Daniel Crosby:

does PERMA stand for? Yeah, so you're exactly right. I mean, this is in the first chapter and I think it is candidly worth the price of admission, because this model is so influential on my thinking, the way I set goals, the way I try and have a balanced life. So the P in PERMA is for positive experiences. This is fun and leisure, and we prepare well for this in retirement in a traditional financial plan right, because money does a great job of affording you fun and leisure. Going to a Michigan game, right, eating an ice cream cone, you know, buying a beach house, like all of this stuff, is pleasurable, like it's fun. That's the fun and leisure part and traditionally we've done a good job of preparing for that.

Daniel Crosby:

The E in PERMA is for engagement. This is deep, meaningful work, this is effort, this is striving right, and we don't always think about hard work as a pillar of happiness, and yet it is. The R is the one that is most predictive of our happiness. This is our relationships. To give and receive love is sort of the highest good. Harvard just came out with sort of the most recent part of their results in this longest running longitudinal study of human happiness, and it is when you read the thing, it basically could be summed up in one word, and it's relationships. Nat King Cole was right the greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return. That is the secret to life.

Daniel Crosby:

The M in PERMA is for meaning. This is working for something outside of yourself. This could be spirituality, religion, philanthropy, charity, teamwork, volunteerism, but kind of getting outside of yourself. And the A is for achievement or advancement. We as a human species are growth oriented. We want to be better today than we were yesterday. We want to be achieving and we want to be growing. And it's interesting again when you think about the traditional retirement. We've gotten really locked in on a number which will buy you a lot of fun and leisure, but work gives us effortful engagement, work gives us relationships, work gives us teamwork, meaning, work gives us opportunities for advancement. So a lot of people find themselves so locked in on this one facet of wealth which is buying nice things and having fun, but don't do much to say how am I going to grow Like? How am I going to love, how am I going to work for something bigger than me? These are not typically what we think of when we talk about wealth, and yet they very much are part of enduring wealth.

Melissa Joy :

It really takes effort and conscious thought about how many of those relationships if you're thinking about retirement, how many of the relationships that matter to you, are unconsciously connected to your work and what can you do to either maintain some of them or replace that. Or you know kind of flex on the side of your personal relationships and friendships as well as the you know kind of the workplace.

Daniel Crosby:

Well, you know, you make a great point, it's, you know. I've been asked then well, if we know that true wealth is these five things and you know not just that one thing, because I think most people, if you say you know what does a good life look like, and you read those five things to them, they would go, yeah, that's, that's pretty good, right, you know that. That makes sense to me. Why do we then fixate on money? It's just, it's as you've just said, money is easy to stack and count and quantify and you know see the number go up and that feels good. You know the love of a child, the love of a partner, you know working for something bigger. These things don't, they're not as easily measurable. And so I think a lot of people fixate on money because it's easy to measure.

Melissa Joy :

Well, another, the name of another one of your chapters is if you can't see versus, you know the you know kind of external rewards of financial expenditures might be easier to see in today's society. You know, in the past you could see the letters that your family received from the people that they cared about, and today that's all hidden. We're in a society that is increasingly lonely and yet we feel like we know what's going on with everyone, because you can check your Insta, go on Facebook or Twitter and see you know kind of the consumption of your neighbors or the influencers that you want to become, and so that's an interesting kind of pivot to how we define success. You have a couple chapters. One of them is called Comparison is a Thief of Joy. Maybe it's my last name, but that's one of my just absolute favorite.

Melissa Joy :

You know kind of reminders to people that you know benchmarking your life, your success, your portfolio on what other people tell you is important is often a fool's errand and a recipe for unhappiness or unsuccessful outcomes. And then another chapter is the Joneses aren't that happy. So this keeping up with the Joneses especially I mean this it feels different, and maybe it's just my age. It feels different in 2024 than it did in 2005 or 1995, in terms of how we just constantly are measuring ourselves against what is presented to us in snippets and formats that are meant to not show the you know the rough edges of society, but what are your thoughts about what people tend to do and what they may consider, how they may consider reframing?

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah, so it's a. It's a great point, and one of you know. One of the themes throughout the book I think there's a couple, but one that kind of comes up again and again is learn to run your own race right. And so in every chapter I start off with some sort of narrative or historical anecdote, and the one for the comparison is the Thief of Joy. Excuse me, it's about Vincent Van Gogh, and Vincent Van Gogh, as talented as he was, had a very sort of lackluster commercial success in his life. He we know for sure that he sold one painting. He may have sold as many as five, but definitely no more than five. If you think about someone of his talent who's selling you know, call it three paintings in a lifetime, I mean it's incredibly tough to consider. He was friends with Paul Gauguin the artist, another talented artist who we now know, and he wrote hundreds of letters to his brother, and these letters are filled with negative comparisons between his gift and his talent and his commercial success and Paul Gauguin's. And what we think is that this comparison, this negative comparison, is the thing that drove him mad and eventually led him to cut off his ear and then eventually to take his own life and then eventually to take his own life.

Daniel Crosby:

But you know it, talk in the book about there's, there's a couple of places in the book where you just find a stat that is so staggering. And when you look at financial contentment, there are two predictors of financial contentment and if you think like, ok, let me, let me think what would make sense in terms of financial contentment, the thing that would make the most sense is how much money you have, and sure enough, that's there, right? That's one of the biggest predictors of financial contentment is just how many dollars do you have, right? Awesome, makes sense. The second predictor, which is just as predictive as the actual number of dollars that you have, is who you are comparing yourself to, and the fancy shrink term for this is your reference class. You know who are you benchmarking to, and you said it beautifully.

Daniel Crosby:

We live in a day and age where it is so easy to benchmark to the wrong people. You know we can benchmark to people with six pack abs and Rolls Royces and beautiful children, and you know, I mean just on and on and on People who are giving us a highly curated, highly edited vision of what their life is like, and we are benchmarking every wart and pimple and bad day to this highly edited version of everyone else's best day, and it is a formula for misery. So having money and having a good reference class are equally important when it comes to financial contentment, and it's absolutely wild to think about that, something so critical. The last thing I'll say about this is, you know, I'm a clinical psychologist by education and I still like very much, even though I worked in finance for whatever 15 years, I still very much identify as a, as a psychologist, and the first, my first sort of the thing that got me into psychology was working with women with eating disorders, and I had a close friend who had an eating disorder.

Daniel Crosby:

Helping her through her recovery process is what helped me fall in love with psychology, and so sort of my first rotation was at an inpatient eating disorder clinic and the very first thing they did with these young women who would come in was teach them to be informed consumers of media and to be thoughtful about their reference classes, because what you had was a bunch of young women and girls, you know, comparing themselves to photoshopped, airbrushed, perfect lighting sort of people in magazines and on TV and finding themselves lacking. So, before therapy before nutritional counseling, before anything. We found it powerful to get them to be thoughtful about their reference class, and I think that is such a powerful analog for our work in finance.

Melissa Joy :

If one of our listeners is here in this moment thinking, yes, that's what I need, I recognize that I have allowed myself to be influenced. How would you go about creating that reference class? Is it soul searching for what is meaningful for you? Is there a different way for you to kind of touch dirt and take it all in? What would you suggest?

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah, so one of the easiest things to do. One of the biggest culprits these days is social media, so that's one of the easiest things to do. Days is social media, so that's one of the easiest things to do. I mean something as simple as taking the app off your phone, because I think for a lot of us, that's how we access social media media so readily.

Daniel Crosby:

People who limited their screen time on social media to 10 minutes in the morning and 10 minutes in the evening, which is still not nothing, I mean, right, you know, think, think about 20 minutes a day of scrolling Instagram or whatever. So 10 minutes in the evening, which is still not nothing, I mean, right, you know? Think, think about 20 minutes a day of scrolling Instagram or whatever. So 10 minutes in the morning, 10 minutes in the evening. The boost to their happiness was the equivalent to people who are taking SSRIs like Prozac. So to think about that right, to think about the power of something so simple as just limiting your scrolling on social media, is so profound.

Daniel Crosby:

The second thing I think is to understand how the sausage gets made, you know, kind of back to the inpatient treatment center where I work. It's like become a critical consumer of this. You know when some celebrity posts their perfect day, you know, know what went into that and know what went into you know your your humble posting on on that same day. Right, understand how the sausage gets made. And then, thirdly, like be, be thoughtful about who you surround yourselves with.

Daniel Crosby:

Right, I find there is a uh, there is a material difference. I'm from a very middle class town in North Alabama is where I grew up and I live in a very affluent part of Atlanta now, and Atlanta is a great deal showier than my hometown, and I find that the feeling is very different. You know, I find that the feeling is very different when I'm home. There's just sort of a more middle class sensibility. There's less showing off, there's less showing out and it materially impacts my happiness. So, you know, get social media in check, understand the process and be thoughtful about the people and places you surround yourselves with.

Melissa Joy :

Those are great ideas when we were getting ready to thoughtful about the people and places you surround yourselves with. Those are great ideas when we were getting ready to talk about the podcast. This is a women's money wisdom podcast, although, I have to tell you, in the last week I've heard three men who are like I really enjoy your episodes. I was like, oh my gosh, thank you for not feeling excluded and listening in. But you in this book give a lot of voice to women's stories, research from women academics, and you have a chapter called Listen to the Women, which actually is kind of a pep talk, I would say, for our female audience about how good we are with money.

Melissa Joy :

But this stands out because in our the world of personal finance there's some terrific, terrific books, but many, if not most, are written by men, extraordinarily fantastic communicators who put together great information. But often and you know it's about that reference point in many cases and also just about our history collectively as culture you know the voices in those books, the stories that are told are typically from a male perspective. How was it to, you know, kind of pull together this representative story? How difficult was it to find the women's stories?

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah, so I really appreciate you noticing because that was definitely that was definitely intentional on my part, and I have a lot of wonderful women in my life my sisters, my wife, my daughters and other people who have made me aware of the disparity that you just talked about, which I might have otherwise, you know, remained blissfully oblivious to, and so that was really intentional on my part. It did take a little effort, you know, insofar as most of these stories are sort of a historical anecdote, I mean, women have been underrepresented historically. So you had to go, you know you had to go digging a little bit, especially on the historical narratives part, the research part, not so much because women are. You know, women are outperforming men these days, even that, you know, at graduate and PhD levels, more women than men go on to grad school, and especially in the social sciences. So that was easier.

Daniel Crosby:

It took a little effort to kind of go back and get the stories. But Listen to Women is a top three chapter to me. This is one of the chapters that it's toward the end of the book and it's one of the ones that I'm most proud of the end of the book and it's one of the ones that I'm most proud of, and I think it's so, I think it's so important. So here's here's sort of the upshot here is that women are the ultimate investors, and nobody believes it, not even women.

Melissa Joy :

So and so that's that pep talk part. I really feel like we need to like give a rah-rah because I believe it, but you know, it is very undersold.

Daniel Crosby:

So the reasons why are kind of fascinating, like, if you think about human behavior being, you know, some mix of nature and nurture. From a nature perspective, women are biologically better made for investing, biologically better made for for investing the biggest thing is that they have lower levels of testosterone, which leads men to be impulsive and take unnecessary risks. So just from, like a purely nature biological perspective, women come here, you know, better wired for making financial decisions than men. Then, from a nurture perspective, you think about how women are socialized, how women are raised. Women are raised to be thoughtful, contemplative, slow, slow to anger, these sorts of things. Men are socialized to be decisive, to pound the table, to take risk, to be loud, and those things don't lend themselves to thoughtful investment decision making. Now. But when you ask mixed groups of men and women who's better, only nine percent of people in a 50-50 group of men and women think that women are better.

Daniel Crosby:

So this message hasn't gotten to the right places, right, I mean, it hasn't even. Not even women are believing in themselves. And when you look at the reasons why, it's sort of insidious. You know, young girls and boys track in STEM performance. They track neck and neck through about middle school, at which time we see that teachers start to socialize boys to be better at math. They expect the boys to be better at math, they help the boys more, they call on the boys more, and so, you know, young girls and young women get this message that you know, this isn't for me, these careers aren't for me, I'm not worthy. This isn't for me and it's not the case because when you know, when we're starting out, there's every evidence to say that men and women are equally good at sort of the analytical, stem type careers.

Daniel Crosby:

So I love this chapter. I'm glad you love this chapter. It's a wake up call. I don't remember the exact stats now, but women are painfully underrepresented at every level of financial services. You know, I think in the financial advisor space, it's like just under a quarter of advisors are women. It's much, much lower.

Melissa Joy :

In asset management, I think it's under 10% of women are in I mean you look at named portfolio managers, where they're the primary portfolio manager, it's just like you know, two to 4 percent. It's so, so low.

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah, so hopefully this chapter can be a rallying cry to men and women to start paying attention.

Melissa Joy :

Well, I agree.

Melissa Joy :

I think another kind of advantage that women have as personal investors too is they don't cede control, but they are willing to work in a collaborative manner with professionals.

Melissa Joy :

They may be more skeptical about who they can trust, but in that point they're, you know, kind of wired to work in collaboration or partnership with a professional and I do think that there can be value to that, and I'm just I know so many people male allies as well as women professionals who are so committed to opening doors so that there's a change in terms of the access to careers in the financial world. So if you're listening and think you know someone who would be great in finance who's a woman, please encourage them or let them listen to this part of our conversation. So when you've wrapped up, you said you know, you talked about you know, kind of your top three chapters, some of the most important things to take away from the book. Is there anything else that you really want, as someone you know picks up and opens the pages? You really want, as someone you know picks up and opens the pages, you want them to remember or be left with or be looking for as they turn the pages in the book.

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah, there's a couple of chapters on purpose. I have been a Viktor Frankl disciple since my early 20s. Sort of the highlight of my professional career was winning a research award from his family for some research I did. I've just always loved Man's Search for Meaning and anything about the power of putting your personal purpose at the forefront of any endeavor, and I think folks are going to see a lot more of that thinking from me in the future.

Daniel Crosby:

I really want to kind of go hard on this, but it's almost magical when applied to money. You know, in in the chapters around there's a couple of chapters around purpose and sort of visualizing your purpose. But you know, in the chapters around purpose, uh, accounts that were tied to a Y uh had 15 percent more wealth than those who didn't. They were 10 times less likely to panic during a downturn. They were two times as likely to save. You know, it's just all of these things are. It's. It's almost like science fiction how much better we get at dealing with our own money when we just stop treating it like a video game or a number where the numbers go up and down and we tie it back to something that's deeply meaningful for us.

Melissa Joy :

What's an example of what you could title your account? Like you know? I don't know that it needs to be that difficult. Are you saying like the vacation fund or the retirement account?

Daniel Crosby:

A hundred percent. So you know Melissa's retire to the Bahamas fund. That's like the simple act of naming it. And you know the other thing that I see this is going to probably be an unpopular opinion with everyone. But when you look at things like socially responsible investing or values-based investing, I don't have a lot of faith in values-based investing in public markets to kind of change the world, but I have a great deal of faith in its ability to change people's behavior. Because if you look at like, if times are tough and I've got the S&P 500 over here and I've got my women's leadership fund that invests in companies that have, you know, diverse representation on boards over here, like which one am I going to sell in a panic? Right, well, I'm going to sell the S&P because it doesn't mean anything to me. So I think that investing alongside your values also has a great deal of potential upside. So, yeah, this meaning thing I mean it's borderline, an obsession, so I was glad I could sneak it into the book.

Melissa Joy :

Yeah, we use, utilize environmental, social governance, investing when requested by clients. I completely agree with you. It changes your batting average of success as an investor it also changes. I mean, it's just about alignment. You're rowing in the same direction when you can feel like, philosophically, that you are representing who you are in the way that your money acts and, yes, you know the debate about, in any given moment in time, how that impacts. You know, through public market investments, an alteration of the world versus you honoring and also being thoughtful about what brings meaning purpose to you. I'm going back to that perma conversation, two different stories, but I absolutely agree with you.

Daniel Crosby:

Yeah.

Melissa Joy :

Well, daniel, I would love to have you back. There's like five podcast episodes that I can already think of For those that are listening. We're also going to do an episode on giving in gratitude, which is I'm going to borrow and promote frequently from your book, because you do a lot of great thinking and thought on those pieces of content as well, and just keep doing the fantastic work. I hope our listeners won't just enjoy this conversation but will also put on their reading list the Soul of Wealth, because it brings a lot of the things we need to be thinking about when it comes to money into the conversation.

Melissa Joy :

Thank you Much appreciated thank you for listening to the women's money wisdom podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to pearlplancom and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned.

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