Episode 295: Money, Marriage & Fairness: Building an Unstoppable Financial Team with Heather & Douglas Boneparth

What happens when money dynamics shift inside a relationship—and how do couples find fairness when life, careers, and income change?

In this episode, Melissa Joy, CFP® sits down with Heather and Douglas Boneparth, the powerhouse couple behind Money Together: How to Find Fairness in Your Relationship and Become an Unstoppable Financial Team.

Heather, a former corporate lawyer, and Douglas, founder of Bonafide Wealth in New York City, open up about how their own experiences as partners, parents, and business owners inspired the book—and why talking about money as a team is harder (and more important) than ever.

Together, they explore:

• ⚖️ How power dynamics around money evolve over time—and what couples can do to keep conversations fair and balanced
• 💬 Why curiosity and communication are the foundation of financial teamwork
• 💡 The “aha” moments from interviewing 75+ couples about love, money, and identity
• ❤️ Why fairness doesn’t always mean 50/50—and how to navigate changing roles without resentment
• 🧩 The link between our upbringing, money habits, and emotional reactions in financial conversations
• 📖 What they learned from writing the book together—and how it reshaped their own partnership

Melissa and her guests also discuss what advisors can take away from Money Together: how to see both partners equally, ask better questions, and help clients build stronger financial relationships—not just portfolios.

✨ Whether you’re managing finances solo or as part of a couple, this conversation reminds us that money isn’t just math—it’s meaning, emotion, and teamwork.

📚 Learn more:
Money Together: How to Find Fairness in Your Relationship and Become an Unstoppable Financial Team
👉 www.domoneytogether.com
👉 www.readthejointaccount.com

The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https:...

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet The Authors And Book
• 2:10 Power Shifts At Home
• 6:30 Why Couples And Money Is Hard
• 10:30 Curiosity And Money Dates
• 14:10 Stories That Open Doors
• 18:40 Vulnerability Over Instagram Perfection
• 22:20 Twins Story And Security Shocks
• 27:00 Gender, Identity, And Job Loss
• 30:20 Super Bowl Story Of Shared Power
• 36:10 Wealth Is Relative, Resentment Isn’t

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence, and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money, and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Women's Money Wisdom podcast. We've got a special episode today about a fresh, brand new book that is being published all about money and how we make decisions about money together. Heather and Douglas Bonaparte are authors of a new book called Money Together: How to Find Fairness in Your Relationship and Become an Unstoppable Financial Team. Douglas is the founder of Bonafide Wealth in New York City. And Heather is a recovering corporate lawyer who runs business affairs for the firm. They co-wrote this book through a weekly couples and money newsletter called The Joint Account. And I was thrilled to be interviewed for the book. Welcome to the podcast, Heather and Douglas. Oh, we're so happy to be here, Melissa. Always love chatting with you. Well, congratulations on the book. And Heather is a returning guest to the podcast. So I'll make sure to include the link to her previous episode in the show notes. But you guys have spent the last year on a breakneck race to get this book published. In doing so, you did so much, you know, hard work learning about how to make decisions on money together. Tell me how the idea of this book kind of came to light and how you made it happen.

SPEAKER_01: 1:48

This book came to us both very differently. And then I think, which is very poetic, when you read the book, you will see that so many joint decisions come to couples in different ways. And then you bring them together to find ultimately the right decision to move forward. So for me, um, you know, I spent more than a decade in the commercial insurance industry. And for, you know, the beginning part of that time, I was the breadwinner in our household as Doug got his uh career started as a financial advisor and trying to get clients and start a firm and things. And um, you know, through so many difficult times, um, namely the pandemic, we saw a seismic shift in the power dynamic over our relationship. And so much of that had to do not only with the external factors all around us, like COVID, um, but and like us having our children uh right around that time as well. Don't forget about them. Yeah, we did a Zoom kindergarten for our kids. So exactly our memories are not precious. 11, no, exactly. 11 months and four years old when COVID started. But um, on top of that, you know, that also is right around the time that as my career was plateauing due to having children and due to the pandemic, Doug's career was taking off. And within a couple years, um, we had completely flipped. And Doug was earning three times the amount of money that I was bringing in. And I think when that happens, you start to tell yourself messages about who deserves things, especially when it comes to time. And ultimately what happened was I kind of became the director of our, as I call it, our cruise ship to nowhere. And um, I became responsible for a lot more of the household, a lot more of the household responsibilities, the caregiving while working a full-time job, while moonlighting as Doug's, you know, business uh consultant for Bonafide Wealth and the firm. Um, and so much of my own agency was lost. And what we found was really interesting was that was right around the time that I stepped away from our family personal finances. Um, because honestly, it felt like the only thing I wasn't responsible for. And um I became very, very interested in this dynamic. Um, you know, ultimately how we resolved this was and I and we and we talk about this in the book too. It's not there doesn't always need to be like this one major thing. It can even be a little thing that's the last straw. I remember that I stepped over a sock for the last time during COVID. I had had enough. And I came to him and I said, something's got to change. What we're doing here isn't working. I'm either gonna go, you know, this is my time. This is my time again, and we have to figure out what that looks like. Um, and what's interesting is I think Doug will tell you too, like he built our he built our entire wealth management firm up with millennials, right? We started this firm and we we started Doug Doug began um looking for clients back in the back on the heels of the Great Recession when we were saddled in the student loan debt trying to start our adult lives. Now we're all in a different phase of our lives. And and and throughout the last decade or so, I think he's seen he's watched couples sit across the table from him and like see versions of themselves that uh they want to see, but maybe not the same version that he sees. And so much of that had to do with the way they were communicating about money together. So I I think ultimately what led us to this book, I know this is a very long-winded answer, but what led us to this book from different different places, me from a personal experience, Doug from a professional experience, to come together and say, there's something that we are missing here. We're not talking about money the correct way in our household, and other couples aren't either. And what can we do to open up the dialogue to create a more equitable household, to create more meaningful, sustainable, equitable partnerships. And that's what led us to this book. Doug, you have anything to add or did I speak for you?

SPEAKER_00: 5:51

Is is the pot are we done with the podcast now? No. Um, I think Heather hit the nail on the head. You know, as someone who's obviously been in personal finance for some time here, this is like year number 20 of being an actual professional and growing up in it, that there are a few areas um that really haven't been covered very well, especially in the era of content creation. And, you know, you have a dime a dozen financial expert on TikTok now, as well as certified financial planners creating podcasts and putting out amazing content and then everything in between. And one area that I noticed, just like back when nobody was focusing on millennials, um, one area that was not being focused on, because it's very hard, is couples and money. Um, dealing with money personally and individually is also very hard, right? When when you understand and through this work, the link between your identity and money, you start to understand why people get so emotional around the topic of money and why it's so personal to them. You know, ones and zeros and numbers, they don't they don't do anything but stare back at you on a piece of paper. But your your mom's cooking and the you know conversations you had at dinner time as a kid, which may or may not involve conversations around money, those are the things that are ingrained within you. So uh I was up for the challenge here. Everything Heather said is true as far as the impact that we can have with our clients, with the book, with people at large to figure out how to unpack how insanely difficult it can be to get into these conversations with the person that you love most in this world. Um, it's not even like, oh, it's hard for one, it's hard for the other, one plus one equals two. It's automatically a five or a six when you start to realize that both people have lived their lives, or both people have lived a lot of life before they've ever met each other. And now they're forced into reconciling these things and charting a pathway forward together. This is not easy to do. No matter who you are, and Heather's story about how we became distant in our own financial situation during that period of time shows that if it can happen to a couple who's not only had their eye on the ball for most, and we've been together for 20 years, if it can happen to us, you know, this this is obviously going to be happening to almost anyone. And uh it was a real opportunity to address that and put uh some thought leadership out there from two people, not just one person's point of view.

SPEAKER_03: 8:40

Yeah, I can think back as a financial professional, and um, you know, I have some wins and losses, I would say, when it comes to seeing both people in a financial engagement. Sometimes the quietest person in the room is really has needs that are not being addressed. And in some cases, you know, big decisions that have impacts on identity, self, so many different things. I think of, you know, the decision on who's the main um person responsible for childcare or household duty or who should step back if there's you know shifting dynamics or the same dynamics about who the breadwinner is that have so much, it's not the dollars and cents. Um, it's so much more. And so this is complex. Like you do need to have a human instinct about talking to the person, not just their wallet. And um it it takes a lot of experience, I think, to really understand those nuances and also understand when, you know, maybe you're not hitting the mark and you need to pivot or explore further.

SPEAKER_01: 9:48

You know what I think is one of the um one of the easiest things that couples can do is to just be more curious about one another. And when you think that, you know, because you're right, it is hard work, and a lot of times this work does require bringing in a professional at a certain point if you reach a certain impasse or the or the or the financial consequences, consequences are serious, but on a baseline level, just be more curious.

SPEAKER_03: 10:15

Well, and your book has a resource which involves questions that can help you talk with each other, kind of prompts if you're on a money date. Exactly. So that's really helpful.

SPEAKER_00: 10:27

And I think that's a really good point because I think most people understand the what meaning uh you know what's going wrong, you know, and what's not happening. I we're we're not communicating, we're getting into arguments around money. But what they don't have necessarily is the how, right? You said yes, be curious. How do you become curious? And whether it's through the questions that we provide you at the end of every section to get these conversations going, almost more important is the stories that are being told throughout the book. We've interviewed well over 75 couples. Um, and through those stories, we're able to share them with the reader so that there would be the hope of that reader saying, This is me, or this is us, and to be able to grab their partner and say, Hey, I want you to read this paragraph or I want you to read this chapter, it's doing a better job than I could ever do in telling you where I'm at. And from that, because Heather and I have experienced this moment before, and it op what it does is it opens the door to those conversations. So whether it's the questions at the end of a section or a particular story or Heather's story or a piece of advice from some of the best experts that we could get our hands on to explain, including yours truly, uh, to be able to begin those dialogues and those moments. We don't expect people to do anything, let alone read the book and come away, you know, the best navigator of couples' financial lives ever. Everything we talk about here today is something that requires consistent work. And it's those first steps that are the hardest. Um, and by giving people uh the ability to walk in, you know, to walk to the door, open it, and walk through it uh is truly what we're hoping to accomplish here with this book. Uh that one moment I think is uh is everything. And then if you can go further, you'll find a life of greater fairness and happiness. And I think everybody would want that.

SPEAKER_03: 12:33

I love it. And I think I something I noticed right off the bat in the book is it's so personal. You're sharing your own stories. It's not, you know, uh, it's not something where your vulnerability shows and also the vulnerability in your interviews, um, you know, to really talk about um the reality that is not what you see on Instagram or TikTok, right? So it's it's more nuanced, it's more personal. There is so much vulnerability when it comes to improving your relationship with money. And I'm also reminded um of an age-old adage I use often when thinking about kids, but it so applies to this book as well that fair isn't always equal. You can't just divide the household duties. There may be shifting dynamics. Um, and so, you know, acknowledging that up front and then talking and waiting through kind of the the um swamp of things that can kind of clutter your relationship with each other and your money is so important. If I could put you guys on the spot though, could you share uh one of the anecdotes from the couples that you interviewed that really sticks out as being insightful or kind of an aha or relatable? Sure. There's so many. Um that's what I love about the book, is just like it it tells it teaches you through telling stories, which is what we are taught is so powerful in the work that we do.

SPEAKER_01: 14:06

So you know, story first. Um, you know, as our friend Morgan says, that story wins, right, Doug? Right. And it's it's true though. I mean, I think you know, when you look at my one of my personal goals for this book is to engage people in their finances that have not been engaged before. And I wanted to look for new on-ramps to people wanting to care more about what was going on at home and wanting to reclaim that financial agency in their relationship. And I knew the way to do that was going to be through relatability and stories. And for us to go and ask people to be vulnerable and to share those, to share what was really going on behind the numbers, right? Because we know the facts, but what are the stories, right? And to ask other people to do that without me being willing to do that myself. Um, you know, I always say, like, I we I promised that I would air myself out first, and I did. So that that that was that was kind of the ethos that we took through the book. Um, I think there's, you know, I could I could give you any number of stories, but I I'm gonna share uh one that one that I think was important because it highlights maybe a kind of contrarian point, but a different viewpoint that you wouldn't normally um like that wouldn't be your gut reaction to to it, um the way that the experts helped us think about it. Um we interviewed a couple uh about getting pregnant and having twins, ultimately. Ultimately they had twins. But when they were just starting to talk about having kids, they were just starting to say, okay, I guess we're open to the idea of having kids, you know, like as as some people do, say, well, we're we wouldn't be upset if we got pregnant and we had kids. Um they were at that phase. And um one night in the middle of the night, um the husband heard his wife rustling around in the bathroom for a while, and he just knew. He's like, Are you pregnant? Like, and she's like, Yep, life's over. I took a test and he spiraled. Like he was like right then and there. They stayed up all night. Like he was like, he was firing questions off her. How are we gonna pay them? What are we gonna do? We're gonna have to move you there. Are you gonna leave your job? Like, spiraled. And my first reaction was like, what a jerk. You know, and I think a lot of people would say, Wow, like I can't believe that was his initial reaction. Several of the couples' therapists we spoke to um challenged me to think about it differently. They said, you know, was he, is he and was he responsible for um the entirety of managing the couple's household finances? And I said, I I think so. And they said, Well, have you thought about that? Yes, his delivery was terrible, sure. But have you thought about that in that moment he felt his entire sense of security shift under his feet? He felt like that was him projecting his own fear about not knowing what was gonna come next. Yeah, he was alone and rely at and relying on his partner in that moment, like, yeah, timing bad, delivery bad. But I think it was a really important point to say, like, and it got me thinking about how there are two sides to every story, right? You know, you see a partner who's disengaged from their finances. And I think that especially like as a woman who's out here to defend, not only defend, but also lift up and empower women. My thought is always like, well, why is she being kept out? Why is she, you know, or or why is she disempowered from doing this? But I think you have to also think about the other side, about the partner who's looking for a partner in their finances, who's looking for more of a teammate, who's not looking to feel alone. I think it's always important to take a 360 view of how you reach a certain place, not just one, not just the person whose whose uh viewpoint relates most closely to one that you can empathize with. But it's important to kind of look at it from every angle and say, well, the dynamic they set up was that he was responsible for their household finances in at that moment in time, and that he felt a deep shift to his personal sense of security at that time. And I think it was just important, and ironically, they had twins and their life is fabulous. And I think the purpose of that story in that chapter was about the idea that when you become parents, the math doesn't always math, there's so much you don't know, you can't plan for everything, and that the beauty and the fear and the terror and the excitement of having children and becoming parents is that you only know what you know, and your life will forever be in constant motion and fluid from there on out. And so I think the story plays into that uh that idea very nicely. But but the way that we've captured it from two different angles, I think was something that will be um validating for validating for some.

SPEAKER_03: 19:09

Isn't it so interesting that I think we it's easier for us to jump to a place of understanding when it comes to female insecurity, but male insecurity is just not a language that, you know, like I feel like men and women uh are often equal in terms of their imposter syndrome, but it's buried a lot deeper and expresses itself in a different way. Um and so part of this, you know, fairness is allowing for um different emotions to be exhibited amongst partners, right?

SPEAKER_01: 19:40

Yes. And that's why it came up again in another place in the book where we we um spoke about a spouse, um a man who lost his job and the difference between when men and women lose their job and how uh the research has shown how different um how how different that plays out in terms of making lifestyle changes in the household. And and and who uh Doug was that what you were was that the one you were going to?

SPEAKER_00: 20:06

No, I I have a different story, but go go go on. You're all Easter.

SPEAKER_01: 20:09

I want to hear both. Oh, then you know what? Then we'll we'll save that. I don't I I'll leave a little Easter egg for somebody for the listeners for another time. Doug, you can share one.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

Well, I was gonna say uh in in response to Melissa, you know, this is why the whole first section of the book is is about beginnings and you know, really getting to understand where you come from. Um it is it is paramount into understanding why um you know societal um societal pressures and the way that we've even today um handle money, you know, whether it's the gendering of how household finances uh are structured, um these are these are things that are hard to escape of escape from. But my story my story or the one I I liked and wanted to share with you guys is uh we had we had a really awesome opportunity to interview a Super Bowl champion and talk to them about what their you know life was like in terms of their early days. It's it's someone we actually um you know went went to college with and played for our school's football team and would go go on and play pro and and win a Super Bowl, which was super, super awesome. And you know, there's there's like shows out there about you know basketball lives or football lives, and you know, it's it's probably not the best look in terms of what it is, but you often you often kind of you know have things like that in reality TV, you know, just stir uh, you know, blur the lines of what's really going on. And we got to really understand, um, and this is I think in the section on power, you know, here was a couple that had been together through the very early days when they didn't make, I mean, there were food stamps to you know feed themselves. You know, going to an NFL combine only paid you so much money. And if you didn't make the team, you know, you weren't getting paid. Um, they had their first child while in undergraduate. And this entire time, what we saw was his wife being the foundation for for this even taking shape. Um, not only when times were tough, but also when times were great. It's a wonderful demonstration about how shared power, your win is my win, my win is your win, is showed at the highest levels of athleticism. And that can be distilled down to any household. Heather and I, you and your partner, whoever it may be, to adopt this mentality. We saw it with them. And I thought that was one of the best one, you know, all the stories are amazing, but I thought this was a particularly cool chapter of how you go from humble beginnings and these two really understanding where they came from to employ good teamwork together in the craziest of times, not knowing what apartment you're going to be renting and what city you're going to be living for this lottery ticket chance that you go pro. And then what? We even follow up after that to understand well, what happens after.

SPEAKER_01: 23:13

Well, don't give away the whole chapter.

SPEAKER_00: 23:15

I won't. But what happens after you know the professional years are gone? And we actually have another, you know, NFL uh player in there to talk about how these things work, which is super cool to see.

SPEAKER_03: 23:26

What a fascinating, you know, um pro athletes give us examples of early retirements, right? Where your identity is so exactly um, at least externally it, you know, enmeshed in your career. And then it's everything's different.

SPEAKER_00: 23:43

Um it certain it serves as a really cool example of, you know, you think about you know, athletic athletes or star, you know, or celebrities or whoever, they're just like us. No, but in in many ways, you know, they are also not immune uh to that. You know, out of out of uh you look at all the billionaires out there and you look at divorce rates among bill amongst billionaires, and uh you will see that they get divorced at pretty much the same or a little bit higher of a rate than just about everyone else. It's not how it's not a how much money you have thing that's taking place here.

SPEAKER_03: 24:16

It's kind of the princess in the P. When you have wealth, you think that it ameliorates all your issues. Um and what we know working with people is um, you know, that life, life's and difficulties can be actually amplified when um there's more money and some things are obviously ease, but no matter how many um, you know, how small the the P is, the mattresses don't help if it's really creating irritation.

SPEAKER_00: 24:45

You will hear from another individual in this book who objectively comes from, you know, Manhattan wealth to the nth degree. And we asked him about his relative measurement of wealth, and he says, we owned one brownstone. My friends at school own the whole block. So here's a guy, you know, who had never needed to worry about a thing in his life who's comparing himself to people who are 10x his wealth. All of them are a thousand X, you know, wealth of any, you know, median person roaming you know the world.

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

The reason we even make that point in the chapter that we did was to was to show couples that it's all relative and that however you felt, whatever your perception was of your circumstances is what should matter to your partner. It's not a race to the bottom of who had life the crappiest. Yeah. Because if you're if you play that game, you're gonna build resentment over time. You're crash out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 25:45

Yeah. Understanding your partner's perspective, even though it's not a perspective you would share with them, is you know, universally necessary when it comes to relationships, I think. And um, you know, I'm I'm a big advocate of couples therapists. If um speaking personally, if um, you know, you kind of find yourself off track in terms of being able to see and hear each other, because um I'm about 10 years older than you guys, I think, because you publicly celebrated a birthday recently, Heather. Yeah, very publicly, sorry. About exactly um 10 years older. And um, you know, as a middle of gen X person, um it it doesn't get easier, even though, you know, people are like, oh my God, I can't wait until I'm not carting the kids around in this way. We can, you know, like lead the kids home for a night. But I find so many of my clients are in that messy money middle where they're um just because they're clients like, you know, they're successful, they're they've got the money that they need, everything should be all figured out, they should have climbed that mountain and everything should be coasting from there. And things are complicated. Money sometimes isn't enough, even though, you know, the zeros at the end of the tax return pile up. Um, and so it's so interesting how you know there's there's no off-ramp to the work that you need to do on these topics.

SPEAKER_01: 27:07

That's that's one of the reasons that we found it so important to talk about power, because I think that people um need to understand not only the power that they have, but the things that hold power over them. And it's not just money, it's expectations, it's social status. It's a lot of things. So that that that's kind of one of the reasons why we talk about power in the book. So important.

SPEAKER_03: 27:35

So what's next for you guys? Where are you gonna take this? You know, other than the bestseller list.

SPEAKER_01: 27:42

That's a great question. You know, I think that one of the exciting things about projects like this is that you might not even really know. I mean, I mean, one one of the for me, one of the most exciting things is is not knowing. I think. 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 28:00

100%. That that's the that's the beauty of business in general, right?

SPEAKER_01: 28:04

Is I've I've never had an opportunity. I've I've personally never had an opportunity as someone who spent so much time in corporate law in corporate America. I've never had an opportunity to see where my personal hard work and efforts in something entrepreneurial would take me. So the unknown is what is so exciting for me. What I know this book will do for our clients and our practice is improve outcomes within our practice. What I hope the book does is to take that on a, you know, on a broader scale to other, you know, to couples all over the world is what I hope. Um, but I know I know it will have a positive impact on our clients at our firm. I know it's had a positive impact on my life. Um, I'm excited to continue on with the joint account, our Substack that we write weekly about couples and money, build that community out um to be a bit more robust and maybe have some more offerings there now that this book, um, you know, the the the bulk of writing this book is behind me. But um, I think the unknown and the uh potential um for possibilities is endless, really.

SPEAKER_03: 29:12

Well, I can tell you something I I'm excited about, and then I'll leave space for you, Doug. Um I really feel like in our profession and personal finance books, that female voices are limited and um there aren't often rooms where the power dynamics of voices are, you know, kind of evened out, where there's an even conversation. Certainly I know many of you know the content creators and influencers in our space um make sure to, you know, pepper the roster with female guests. Um and I feel like the there are women like myself who are then trying to, you know, push back by creating a space and an audience for women and um you know to catch up in some cases. In terms of our level of conversation when it comes to money. But what we really need, and I am desperate for in the next in the coming decade, is spaces where there's equality in the conversation, where you're each sharing your perspectives, where we're not, you know, kind of keeping the big arena for, you know, whoever has floated to the top based on influence and um algorithms. And then there's this little room if you want the female perspective, or, you know, fill in the blank for underrepresented communities. Um, and so having an opportunity to talk about personal finance when many, if not most of us, Doug, are working with families that have, you know, multiple members is so powerful and important to me. And, you know, I even wonder like, should I be talking women's money wisdom or be a female voice that speaks to a broader audience? Um, so thank you for doing that work.

SPEAKER_01: 31:01

Of you know what I think the way I view it is, and I I I completely agree, completely agree with everything you said. And um gender equity out in the workplace, including in the wealth management space, I truly believe believes begins with couple equity at home. Oh yeah. And it's so much of that, even when we actually talk about industry stuff, why women are not in those conversations could very well be because some of the men that are part of those conversations are not approaching money this way with their partner at home.

SPEAKER_00: 31:38

100% on that. Listen, you know, the stats are the stats. You know, um, you you know what the makeup is and the demographics are of, you know, finance at large and personal finance. It skews heavily towards males. Uh, we look at the type of thought leadership and content or books that are out there, and they're written for the bros more than, you know, you don't you don't see and and what you want to see more of is, you know, that book that captures not only the attention of a male reader, but really strikes at, you know, the heart of a female reader as well. And I think a lot of strategy went into creating this book to make sure that we sh struck the right balance here and we explain why you're going to read a book in Heather's voice and why that space was made. Not only did she have the better story to tie all of these things together, but and she's obviously the better writer out of the two of us, but from a strategic point of view, in terms of how we wanted to create impact to readers and who we wanted grabbing this book to give them those first steps into these conversations. Um, this was all very deliberate. So, yes, it's long overdue. And yes, that participation needs to be there. And can I just figure hopefully yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:51

Can I just pat you on? I'm gonna pat Doug on the back. And I this is important to me as we talk about this book specifically with your industry. Doug Doug is a is a figurehead in your industry. He is influential in your industry with a platform that is sizable. And Doug gave me his platform to do this. Like, and I don't say that like, oh, like I yeah, I know like we built this together, but this was a conscious choice for we built on, we built with Doug, and he has made space for me and this message to continue on and use this platform for this good work moving forward because we have discussed about how important it is not just to make people laugh, not just to be likable, not just to get clients, but to really do the work and to make change as best we can. And so for him making the space, this is what we talk about. We wanted to embody the spirit of what we actually like believe in in and what we write about in this book, which is ambition is collective in our relationship. My win is his win, his win is my win. There is no ego here in terms of who gets to speak, who gets their name first on this book. And and and and that we wanted to we want to embody embody that in the work and in the industry.

SPEAKER_00: 34:05

When when when you when you engage in this type of work with your partner, right, and you start to understand that really take ownership over the fact you're playing a team game here. Can you can you imagine playing a team game and you and your teammates or have different objectives other than to win the game together? But the ironic part about playing the game of money with your significant other is there's actually no winning the game. There's not a moment in which you figured it out. Heather and I are examples of that. We thought we had it all figured out going into 2020, only to, you know, have a wrecking ball, you know, smash our idea of what winning looked like. You you don't win. But for me, you know, this was equal when when you engage in these conversations, what you will ultimately figure out is in the context of us in this pro or me in this project, this was 50%, you know, wow, I see an amazing opportunity. I'm excited as an entrepreneur, as a businessman, as, you know, someone who has built a platform in this space over to the altruistic things that come from putting this type of stuff out there to help people. It's at that intersection that I think you take, you take a win, you know, and you realize you're in a really good spot. And it's the work you put in. And couples can do that too. It might not be writing a book together. It might not be going on a three-year project together. It's simply being a team on the day to day, the week to week, and you know, working together towards the big goals that you have, whether that's financial independence and being able to retire someday, getting your kids to college, leaving the corporate world to start a business. Or how about just being happy because you're in control and you guys don't worry about the things that aren't being said because you got to a point where they are being said and you can communicate at that level. That's how you live a life that's more fair. That's how you find happiness, and that's how you end up loving your partner even more than you did before you even met them. And I hope that's something couples strive for. Or what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03: 36:12

I should have rolled out the soapbox before you said that, Doug, but I think you wrapped it up so well. Um, I hope that people take a minute to buy the book and read it. We have links in the show notes to a local bookstore that has the book ready to go for you. Um, and, you know, also thank you, Vanna. Keep it up there. Um, and also I hope that other professionals that we know will take a minute to question their own assumptions when it comes to their advice for couples so that they can use the book as a ladder and leverage to give better advice. I know I will. So thank you for joining us. I hope that you'll be back again soon. Um, and congratulations and best of luck on this book launched.

SPEAKER_01: 37:05

Thank you so much, but it's such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02: 37:19

Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way that you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to ProPlan.com and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned. This presentation by Pro Planning is intended for general information purposes only. No portion of this presentation serves as the receipt of or substitute for personal investment advice from Pro Planning or any other investment professional of your choosing. Copies of Pro Planning's current rent and disclosure brochure and from CRS discussing our advisory services and fees are available upon request or on our website platform at PerlPlan.com. The information that we share is meant to educate and inspire, not serve as personalized financial advice. Everyone's situation is unique, so be sure to consult with your own financial professional for guidance that fits your life. And just so you know, the opinions shared in this podcast are Melissa's own and those of our guests. They don't necessarily represent any organizations with which Melissa is affiliated. For more important disclosures, please go to our webpage at proplan.com.